I Deposited 300 Euro and won 8.000.

They are refusing to pay out my winning because in their Terms and Conditions are some extremely unfair statements like this:

"Hinweis: Alle Gewinne, die vor Ablauf des Reload-Bonus (Einzahlungsbonus) erzielt wurden, k?nnen durch Stornierung des Bonus ausgezahlt werden. Der maximale ausgezahlte Gewinn betr?gt jedoch das Zweifache (2x) des ursprünglichen Einzahlungsbetrags. Wenn die Gewinne aus der Ersteinzahlung erzielt werden, betr?gt der maximale Auszahlungsbetrag das Zweifache (2x) der Ersteinzahlung. Jeder Betrag, der diese Anforderung übersteigt, wird vom Guthaben des Kunden abgezogen."

If im honest i dont know if this can be possible. In my eyes and a normal defined Non Sticky Bonus is determined as followed: " If you win inside your own money you can keep the winnings." aswell as like this "On the other hand, if a casino offers a non-sticky bonus, this indicates that a player can withdraw the initial deposit as well as any winnings made from this deposit, without being required to fulfil any wagering requirement. This is a major benefit of playing at casinos that offer non-sticky bonuses."

How in the world can it be legal that i can only cashout 2x of my deposit ? This is completely ridiculous and in my eyes is in no way fair.

I need your help regarding this.

I was technically not playing with any bonus money. I did not hit the bonus in any way. I was completely playing with my own money the whole time and didnt touch the bonus money in any way.

How can it be legal to put a max cashout on raw money ? How?

Please someone explain this to me?

And please explain to me how a Casino with this Terms and Conditions is rated with a 7 ????

Please help...

Dear Saint90,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I am sorry to hear about your problem with Sultanbet Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few questions so I can understand the situation completely. Have you made any successful withdrawals before? Could you please confirm that you have passed the KYC verification?

Have you activated a deposit bonus and canceled it before fulfilling the wagering requirements? I found the rule that you submitted here in the General Terms and Conditions of Bonuses.

I hope we will be able to help you resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Veronika

I have not yet made a successful withdrawal at this casino.

My KYC has been checked and confirmed.

I activated and canceled the deposit bonus.

There were no wagering requirements in this regard, since I CANCELED the bonus, which should actually legally mean that all associated terms and conditions should be deleted and no longer apply.

I made a profit within MY deposited 300 euros, then canceled the bonus and then submitted the amount of 1,800 euros as a withdrawal.

In my opinion, with this requested withdrawal, all remaining bonus terms and conditions are also overridden and all winnings made afterwards are legal on my part.

Therefore, it cannot be that the casino simply does not accept the later payouts of 4,500 and 2,800 euros and consider them void.

As you can see from the screenshots, the other payouts were initiated after the actual €1,800 payout. So how can it be that even these are being removed from my balance??

This makes absolutely no sense and can in no way be legal.

I played here with my own money and not the casino's money and my money is still being cashed out twice? And then the same terms and conditions will be applied to any subsequent winnings after the first payout? There must be a mistake here somewhere, or the casino is just trying to steal from me.

Honestly, that doesn't make any sense at all!

Ich habe bisher auf diesem Casino noch keine erfolgreiche Abhebung durchgeführt.

Meine KYC wurden überprüft und best?tigt.

Ich habe den Einzahlungsbonus aktiviert und storniert.

Es gab in dieser Hinsicht keine Wettbedingungen, da ich ja da den Bonus STORNIERT habe, was eigentlich Legal auch dafür stehen sollte das alle verbundenden Terms and Conditions damit gel?scht werden und nicht mehr greifen sollten.

Ich habe innerhalb MEINER eingezahlten 300 Euro einen gewinn erziehlt daraufhin den Bonus storniert und daraufhin den betrag von 1.800 Euro als Abhebung eingereicht.

Meiner Meinung nach werden mit dieser beantragten Abhebung ebenfalls alle restlichen Bonus AGB au?er Kraft gesetzt und alle Gewinne die danach erziehlt wurden sind meiner Seits rechtm??ig.

Daher kann es nicht sein das dass Casino die sp?teren Auszahlungen von 4.500 und 2.800 Euro einfach nicht akzeptiert und als nichtig wertet.

Wie sie auf den Screenshots sehen wurden die anderen Auszahlung nach der eigentlichen 1.800 euro auszahlung veranlasst. Wie kann es also sein das selbst diese von meiner Balance entfernt werden??

Das macht absolut keinen Sinn und kann in keinster Weise legal sein.

Ich habe hier mit meinem eigenen Geld und nicht mit dem Geld von dem Casino gespielt und trotzdem wird auf mein Geld ein 2x Cashout veranlasst? Und dann werden noch auf alle sp?teren Gewinne nach der ersten Auszahlung die gleichen Terms and Conditions angewendet ? Es muss doch hier irgendwo ein Fehler vorliegen, oder das Casino versucht schlichtweg mich zu bestehlen.

Das macht doch ehrlich gesagt übehaupt keinen Sinn ??!

And I would like to refer again to the site's own terms and conditions:

" Note: All winnings made before the reload bonus (deposit bonus) expires can be withdrawn by canceling the bonus. However, the maximum withdrawn win is twice (2x) the original deposit amount. If the winnings are obtained from the first deposit , the maximum withdrawal amount is twice (2x) the initial deposit. Any amount exceeding this requirement will be deducted from the customer's balance."

Any winnings made before the Reload Bonus expired.

Particular attention should be paid to the statement "Before expiry" . No bonus has expired for me , so these terms do not apply and the entire balance should therefore be available for withdrawal.

Und ich m?chte hier noch einmal auf die eigenen AGBs der Seite verweisen:

"Hinweis: Alle Gewinne, die vor Ablauf des Reload-Bonus (Einzahlungsbonus) erzielt wurden, k?nnen durch Stornierung des Bonus ausgezahlt werden. Der maximale ausgezahlte Gewinn betr?gt jedoch das Zweifache (2x) des ursprünglichen Einzahlungsbetrags. Wenn die Gewinne aus der Ersteinzahlung erzielt werden, betr?gt der maximale Auszahlungsbetrag das Zweifache (2x) der Ersteinzahlung. Jeder Betrag, der diese Anforderung übersteigt, wird vom Guthaben des Kunden abgezogen."

Alle Gewinne, die vor Ablauf des Reload Bonus erzielt wurden.

Es sollte hier besonders auf die Aussage von "Vor Ablauf" geachtet werden. Bei mir ist kein Bonus abgelaufen daher greifen diese Terms nicht und somit sollte mir das gesamt Guthaben zur Abhebung bereitstehen.

Have you played with the bonus before you canceled it? Or have you activated the bonus and de-activated it immediately without any gameplay?

As I said, I activated the bonus. Played with my money.

So I never played with the actual bonus money because I never reached it.

After activating the bonus I had a balance of 623 euros. I just checked my game history. I played up to 599 euros before I started winning. So I never got under 599 euros before I deactivated the bonus.

323 My Balance + 300 Bonus Balance.

I played my balance down to 299 euros/dollars before I started winning. So I didn't even touch the bonus balance.

Wie gesagt, ich habe den Bonus aktiviert. Mit meinem Geld gespielt.

Ich habe also nie mit dem eigentlichen Bonusgeld gespielt da ich dieses nie erreicht habe.

Ich hatte nach aktivierung des bonus eine Balance von 623 Euro. Ich habe gerade nochmal in meine Spielhistorie geguckt. Ich habe bis 599 Euro gespielt bevor ich angefangen habe zu gewinnen. Ich bin also niemals unter 599 Euro gekomme bevor ich den Bonus deaktiviert habe.

323 Meine Balance + 300 Bonus Balance.

Ich habe meine balance bis 299 Euro / Dollar runtergespielt bevor ich angefangen habe zu gewinnen. Habe die Bonus Balance also nicht einmal ansatzweise angefasst.

Thank you very much, Saint90, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter ([email protected]) who will assist you. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Furthermore, it should be mentioned that I made a deposit of 324 dollars. But the bonus was only $300.

As can be seen in the screenshots of my history, I also did not go below the $300 bonus granted to me.

As you can see, my first win was $599 with a starting balance of $623. 623 -24 = $599. From that point on I won and from then on I never once went under $600 before I finally canceled the bonus. Therefore, it cannot be that the Terms and Conditions apply here as I did not slip into the Bonus Terms myself in my RAW Cash, since the balance that the bonus was granted was not "touched" since I was only granted a bonus of $300 and I had $24 in perfect money not in any way attached to the bonus and played with it.

So how can it be that you yourself think that 2x max cashout will be applied to this money?

Do you understand what I mean ? If not, I can try to explain again.

Desweitere sollte erw?hnt werden das ich eine Einzahlung von 324 Dollar gemacht habe. Der bonus aber nur 300 Dollar betragen hat.

Wie in den Screenshots meiner Historie zu sehen bin ich ebenfalls nicht unter die mir gew?hrten 300 Dollar Bonus gegangen.

Wie zu sehen ist war mein erster Gewinn bei 599 Dollar bei einer Start Balance von 623 Dollar. 623 -24 = 599 Dollar. Ab diesem Zeitpunkt habe ich gewonnen und bin ab dann nicht ein einziges mal, bevor ich dann schlussendlich Bonus storniert habe, unter 600 Dollar gekommen. Daher kann es nicht sein das die Terms and Conditions hier greifen da ich selbst in meinem RAW Cash nicht in die Bonus Terms hineingerutscht bin, da die Balance die der Bonus gew?hrt wurde nicht "berührt wurde" da mir nur ein Bonus von 300 Dollar gew?hrt wurde und ich 24 Dollar vollkommenes in keinster Weise irgendwie an den Bonus attached Geld hatte und mit diesem gespielt habe.

Also wie kann es sein das sie selbst da meinen das auf dieses Geld 2x max Cashout angewendet werden ?

Verstehen sie was ich meine ? Falls nicht kann ich es noch einmal veruschen zu erkl?ren.

Hi Saint90,

I'm taking over your complaint. Let me ask you some questions to proceed with the investigation.

1. Do I understand correctly that you made the winnings while the bonus was active?

2. Was there any warning in the casino account that would inform you what would happen if you cancel the bonus?

3. Did the casino automatically credit the 2x of your deposit to your account?

4. Is there a possibility to "cancel the cancellation" of the bonus and finish the wagering?

1. I made the profit of 1,800 euros when the bonus was still "active", after which I canceled the bonus and initiated a payout. After that I won again 2,800 euros and 4,500 euros when the bonus was canceled a long time ago.
2. There was no warning regarding that I can only withdraw 2x from my deposit. There was no WARNING!!
3. The money was not automatically credited to me, only a day later after all my withdrawals were rejected, the "money" was credited to me
4. There is no option to cancel the bonus cancellation

I would like to reiterate my previous message in which I state that I won within the money that was not doubled even from the bonus.

I repeat: $324 deposit from me - 300 bonus from the casino. I won within $24 which was not doubled by the casino as a bonus. You can choose how much bonus money you want to double and I chose the $300 option.

So I won within the $24 that had absolutely nothing to do with the bonus.

So I don't understand how the Terms and Conditions can apply here? Apart from all the other inconsistencies I've already listed.

I have backed and proven everything I claim with screenshots.

1. Ich habe den Gewinn von 1.800 Euro erzielt als der Bonus noch "aktiv war" danach habe ich den Bonus storniert und eine Auszahlung veranlasst. Danach gewann ich erneut 2.800 Euro und 4.500 Euro als der Bonus bereits schon lange lange storniert war.
2. Es gab keine Warnung in Hinsicht dessen das ich nur 2x von meiner Einzahlung auszahlen kann. Es gab keine WARNUNG !!
3. Das Geld wurde mir nicht automatisch gutgeschrieben, erst einen Tag sp?ter nachdem alle meine Auszahlung abgelehnt wurden wurde mir das "Geld" gutgeschrieben
4. Es gibt keine M?glichkeit die Stornierung des Bonus abzubrechen

Ich m?chte hier nocheinmal auf meine vorherige Nachricht verweisen in der ich erkl?re das ich innerhalb des Geldes welches selbst vom Bonus nicht verdoppelt wurde gewonnen habe.

Ich wiederhole: 324 Dollar Einzahlung von mir - 300 Bonus vom Casino. Ich gewann innerhalb von 24 Dollar die nicht vom Casino als Bonus verdoppelt wurde. Man kann sich aussuchen wie viel Bonusgeld man verdoppeln will und ich w?hlte die Option von 300 Dollar.

Daher gewann ich innerhalb der 24 Dollar die nichts aber wirklich absolut gar nichts mit dem Bonus zu tun hatten.

Ich verstehe daher nicht wie die Terms and Conditions hier greifen k?nnen? Abgesehen von all den anderen ungereimtheiten die ich bereits aufgez?hlt habe.

Alles was ich behaupte habe ich mit Screenshots unterlegt und bewiesen.

Please excuse me if I should write too much, but the cheekiness of this case makes me a little angry.

I just wanted to briefly refer to the terms and conditions which say:

" All winnings made before the reload bonus (deposit bonus) expires can be withdrawn by canceling the bonus. However, the maximum withdrawable profit is twice (2x) the original deposit amount. "

I am aware that I have already written something about this, but I would still like to clarify here that I canceled the bonus before my first requested payout and then continued to win. So all winnings I made after the cancellation, i.e. after "expiry of the reload bonus", should be legitimate and not fall under the terms and conditions and bonus conditions because, as already mentioned, I canceled the bonus after the first $1,700 win. Accordingly, it would only be logical if all winnings made after this ($2,800 and $4,500) rightfully belong to me and do not fall under the bonus terms as the bonus has expired/cancelled.

greeting

Thiemo

(PS: Please excuse me if I repeat myself in parts or post too much, I just want to make it clear that everything is understood.)

Bitte entschuldigen sie falls ich zu viel schreiben sollte, aber die Frechheit dieses Falls macht mich etwas sauer.

Ich wollte nur nochmal kurz auf die AGBs verweisen welche sagen:

"Alle Gewinne, die vor Ablauf des Reload-Bonus (Einzahlungsbonus) erzielt wurden, k?nnen durch Stornierung des Bonus ausgezahlt werden. Der maximale ausgezahlte Gewinn betr?gt jedoch das Zweifache (2x) des ursprünglichen Einzahlungsbetrags. "

Mir ist bewusst das ich bereits dazu etwas geschrieben habe, ich würde hier gerne trotzdem nochmal klarstellen das ich den Bonus vor meiner ersten angeforderten Auszahlung storniert habe und dann weiterhin gewonnen habe. Also müssten alle Gewinne dich ich nach der Stornierung, also nach "Ablauf des Reload Bonus" erzielt habe , legitim sind und nicht unter die AGBs und Bonusbedingungen fallen da ich, wie schon erw?hnt, nach dem ersten 1.700 Dollar Gewinn den Bonus storniert habe. Dementsprechend w?re es eigentlich nur logisch, wenn alle Gewinne die danach erzielt wurden ( 2.800 Dollar und 4.500 Dollar) rechtm??ig mir geh?ren und nicht unter die Bonusbedingungen fallen da der Bonus abgelaufen/storniert wurde.

Gru?

Thiemo

(P.S.: Bitte entschuldigen Sie falls ich mich teilweise wiederhole, oder zu viel poste, ich will nur klarstellen das alles verstanden wird.)

Hi Thiemo,

Basically, as soon as you activate a bonus, it doesn't really matter if you play with a real money balance or bonus balance, the wagering requirement still applies. No casino will let you make some winnings while your bonus is active and then let you cancel the bonus and keep the winnings without finishing the wagering. However, in order to get a clear picture of what exactly happened let me contact the casino and I'll see what I can do to help. I would like to invite Sultanbet Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Maybe there is a possibility that I am allowed to pay out a little more as a sign of goodwill because I have won so much but can only pay out so extremely little?

I honestly don't know anymore...

Maybe I will be allowed to withdraw 20x or at least 10x my deposit amount?

Regarding their statement "No casino allows you to make some winnings while your bonus is active and then cancel the bonus and keep the winnings without completing the wagering." - I assumed that since I only claimed a $300 bonus and I won within my $24 not matched by the bonus, the bonus requirements didn't apply. Which I think would be very logical.

And if the bonus were non-sticky, which is actually advertised as well, then I would be able to pay out the entire winnings as soon as I win...

Vielleicht gibt es ja eine M?glichkeit das mir als Zeichen des guten willens erlaubt wird etwas mehr auszuzahlen da ich soviel gewonnen habe aber nur so extrem wenig auszahlen kann ?

Ich wei? ehrlich gesagt auch nicht mehr weiter...

Vielleicht wird mir erlaubt 20x oder zumindest 10x meines einzahlungsbetrags auszuzahlen ?

Bezüglich ihrer Aussage "In keinem Casino k?nnen Sie einige Gewinne erzielen, w?hrend Ihr Bonus aktiv ist, und dann den Bonus stornieren und die Gewinne behalten, ohne den Einsatz abzuschlie?en." - Ich ging davon aus das ich, da ich ja nur 300 Dollar Bonus angefordert habe und ich innerhalb von meinen nicht vom Bonus verdoppelten 24 Dollar gewonnen habe, die Bonusanforderungen nicht gelten. Was meiner Meinung nach sehr logisch w?re.

Und w?re der Bonus non sticky, womit ja eigentlich auch geworben wird, dann dürfte ich den kompletten gewinn auszahlen sobald ich gewinne...

Dear Peter,

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

We have had a thorough review of the user’s account, along with their bonus and full gaming activity and would like to shed some light on the matter.

The user has deposited 324 USD which they used in order to claim our welcome casino promotion at 23/05/2023 01:16:28. The way our bonus engine works (and this is clearly shown on the website) is that in order to receive a bonus, a customer needs to 'buy' it with a portion or full amount of their deposit. In this case, the player deposited 324 USD and bought a bonus of 300 USD. They have since proceeded to play with their funds and have only cancelled the bonus at 23/05/2023 01:43:12 after more than 400 gameplay rounds and generating profit while the bonus was in the account. At this point, the player requested a withdrawal which effectively cancelled the bonus, however, he left funds in the account to proceed to play. 

It is important to emphasize that this amount had also been generated while having the bonus and bonus-related restrictions in their account, meaning it is subject to restrictions.

 We would like to draw attention to the following term of our bonus Terms and Conditions which are available on our website at all times:

10. Any winnings made prior to the bonus expiring can be withdrawn by cancelling the bonus but the maximum winnings that can be withdrawn will be 2x the initial deposit amount. If the winnings are made from the initial deposit, the maximum withdrawal amount will be two (2x) times the initial deposit.

As per our Terms and Conditions we have adjusted the user’s balance and they currently have 648 USD on their account, for which they may feel free to instruct a withdrawal.

Thank you once again for bringing this to our attention.

Kind regards, 

Sultanbet

I am well aware of their extremely unfair terms and conditions.

But I find it quite disappointing and very questionable that they don't address my points in any way, which I consider quite logical and understandable.

For one, I won within the $24 I didn't claim for the bonus. And therefore, in my opinion, no bonus terms should or can apply to it.

Furthermore, I consider it extremely questionable and unfair to set a 10x max cash out for the bonus balance but only a ridiculous 2x for the "real balance".

I wouldn't have said anything against a 10x max cashout but anything else is extremely unfair and totally unacceptable in my opinion.

Furthermore, their bonus is advertised as "non sticky". However, this is by no means a normal non sticky bonus, as a standard non sticky bonus in today's casino industry is defined as follows:

"If a casino offers a non-sticky bonus, this indicates that a player can withdraw the initial deposit as well as any winnings made from this deposit, without being required to fulfil any wagering requirement. This is a major benefit of playing at casinos that offer non-sticky bonuses."

So it's partly a question of deception here, since this definition does not apply to their bonus in any way.

I am again asking the casino and Casinoguru to allow me at least, as a goodwill gesture, to withdraw 10x my deposit so that this whole thing can be ended amicably.

Mir sind ihre extrem unfairen Terms and Conditions durchaus bekannt.

Aber ich finde es durchaus entt?uschend und sehr fragwürdig das sie in keinster Weise auf meine Punkte eingehen welche ich als durchaus logisch und verst?ndlich erachte.

Zum einen das ich innerhalb der 24 Dollar, welche ich nicht für den Bonus beansprucht habe, gewonnen habe. Und daher meiner Meinung nach keine Bonus Terms dafür gelten sollten bzw. k?nnen.

Des weiteren erachte ich es als extrem fragwürdig und unfair einen 10x max. Cash Out für die Bonus Balance anzusetzen aber für die "reale Balance" nur einen l?cherlichen 2x.

Ich h?tte nichts gegen einen 10x max cashout gesagt aber alles andere ist meiner Meinung nach extrem unfair und in keinster Weise vertretbar.

Des weiteren wird ihr Bonus als "non Sticky" beworben. Es kann hier aber in keinster Weise von einem normalen Non Sticky Bonus die rede sein, da ein Standard Non Sticky Bonus in der heutigen Casino Industrie wie folgt definiert wird:

"If a casino offers a non-sticky bonus, this indicates that a player can withdraw the initial deposit as well as any winnings made from this deposit, without being required to fulfil any wagering requirement. This is a major benefit of playing at casinos that offer non-sticky bonuses."

Es ist hier also zum Teil von Irreführung zu sprechen, da diese Definition in keinster Weise auf ihren Bonus zutrifft.

Ich bitte hier erneut das Casino sowie Casinoguru mir zu erlauben zumindest, als eine Geste des guten willens, 10x meiner Einzahlung auszuzahlen, damit diese ganze sache im beiderseitigen einvernehmen beendet werden kann.

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies. We discussed this complaint internally and I would like to ask some additional questions.

Dear Sultanbet Casino team,

1. Could you please send me the full terms of the bonus ([email protected])?
2. Are the bonus money and real money displayed separately in the player's account?
3. Is there any sort of notification that would warn players about the fact that if they make a withdrawal their bonus will be canceled (apart from the sentence in the T&Cs)?

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your response. 

Further to your query, please note that the bonus Terms and Conditions are available to all users on the website and can be found here: https://www.sultanbet.com/promotions/promotiondetails/3693

As far as the balance goes it is displayed to the users with both the total amount itself and also having a separation by bonus balance visible. 

Regarding the withdrawal itself, when instructing a withdrawal with their non-sticky bonus active, customers receive a pop-up prompt that they would need to cancel their active non-sticky bonus before proceeding with the withdrawal.

As previously advised, the user in question has cancelled their bonus at 23/05/2023 01:43:12 after which they have issued their withdrawal at 23/05/2023 01:43:41. 

We have adjusted the user’s balance as per our Terms and Conditions and the user currently has 648 USD available on their account.

Thank you once again for bringing this to our attention.

Kind regards, 

Sultanbet 

Thank you Sultanbet Casino team for the explanation and thank you Thiemo for your email.

Dear Thiemo,

As we gathered all the relevant information, we came to a conclusion. Our position is as follows: If a player with an active bonus requests a withdrawal, they should be warned that they may lose their winnings if they continue or the withdrawals should be blocked. The situation is, however, different if a player requests cancellation of the bonus. Generally, if you cancel your bonus, you can't expect that you will be able to withdraw your winnings from the bonus. I understand that in some casinos (rather rare situations) you can withdraw your winnings made from the real money part of the balance even if you have an active bonus. However, this is not the case. The bonus conditions are bound to the whole balance and therefore when you cancel your bonus, you lose your winnings. This is quite common and in most casinos, you don't even get a 2x of your deposit, you usually hardly get your original deposit back. I'm afraid we can't penalize the casino for this.

Thank you for taking the time to review this "case".

Could you please answer the following questions (at your own discretion and in your "legal" opinion).

If they can do so in good conscience, I will happily close this case.

1. I deposited $324 - then I chose $300 as a bonus, which the casino credited to me. All of my subsequent winnings I won within the $24 not matched by the casino as a bonus . You can choose how much you want to match your deposit and I chose the $300 option. So how can it be that a maximum payment is made for an amount that was in no way influenced by the bonus and should therefore not be limited by the Bonus Terms? How can Bonus Terms be applied to winnings made within the money that was not benefited by the Bonus and therefore should not be subject to the Bonus Terms? Theoretically, that doesn't make any sense.
2. The casino's bonus is advertised as "Non Sticky". Normal bonuses, and you have correctly determined that, are "sticky" and accordingly subject to wagering requirements and expire as soon as a bonus is canceled. "Non Sticky" bonuses are "usually" and in really ALL casinos that offer non sticky bonuses defined as follows: "A non sticky bonus in the casino does not "stick" to the deposit and is a coveted action of the providers. This is a debit of equity allowed at any time." At this point, I am only concerned with whether the presentation of the bonus as "Non Sticky" is misleading to the user. In my opinion the suggestion here is that you can withdraw ALL your winnings at any time since the bonus is non sticky and this is the standard in the casino industry for a bonus to be declared non sticky.
3. Do you think the casino bonus terms are fair? A relatively easy question. How can it be fair that a maximum payout of 2x is stipulated on a "raw balance", regardless of whether it is "linked" to a bonus or not. Especially when the maximum payout of the bonus is 10x. I think that you should at least state on your site (Casinoguru) that the bonus terms of this casino are extremely unfair and bear no relation to the norms of other casinos. I'm also not aware of how these bonus terms can be legal, but as expected, no one from the Curacao complaints office has reported to take my case.
4. You cannot wager the bonus within your raw balance. That is, as long as you haven't arrived within the bonus balance, in this case $300. Cannot wager the received bonus. So what is the point of this bonus? Could someone explain that to me? So I'm supposed to lose $324 of my own money first and then I can wager the bonus first and then withdraw 10x my deposit (if I win)? That means my actual balance has no value at all as soon as I accept the bonus until I get into the bonus, except that I can pay out a grandiose 2x my deposit? I would like to emphasize this again: You do not wager as long as you are not in the bonus balance! Again, my question: is that fair? Does it make sense? What is a rule like this doing in any casino?

(Edit: I added point 4 again because I remembered it.)

Thank you again for your help so far.

I'm just asking you to read through my listed points, answer them and focus specifically on point 1 here (hopefully after internal discussions). In my opinion the casino should "at least" allow me to withdraw 10x my initial deposit to show some kind of goodwill.

greeting

PS : I would be very obliged if you could answer my questions chronologically and under the respective points. I hope I can follow your train of thought.

Danke das Sie sich bisher die Zeit genommen haben diesen ?Fall" zu begutachten.

K?nnten Sie mir bitte noch folgende Fragen (nach eigenem Ermessen sowie ihrer "legalen" Auffassung) beantworten.

Wenn sie dies guten Gewissens tun k?nnen, werde ich diesen Fall gerne schlie?en.

1. 324 Dollar wurden von mir eingezahlt - daraufhin w?hlte ich 300 Dollar als Bonus, welche mir das Casino gutgeschrieben hat. Alle meine daraufhin folgenden Gewinne gewann ich innerhalb der 24 Dollar, die nicht vom Casino als Bonus verdoppelt wurden. Man kann sich aussuchen, wie viel man von seiner Einzahlung verdoppeln will und ich w?hlte die Option von 300 Dollar. Wie kann es also sein, dass auf einen Geldbetrag, welcher in keiner Weise vom Bonus beeinflusst war und damit auch nicht von den Bonus Terms begrenzt werden sollten, eine maximale Auszahlung veranlasst wird? Wie k?nnen auf Gewinne, die innerhalb von dem Geld erzielt wurden, welches nicht vom Bonus begünstigt wurde und damit auch nicht an die Bonus Terms gebunden sein sollte, Bonus Terms angewandt werden? Das macht theoretisch gar keinen Sinn.
2. Der Bonus des Casinos wird als "Non Sticky" beworben. Normale Boni, und das haben Sie korrekt festgestellt, sind "Sticky" und dementsprechend an Umsatzbedingungen gebunden und verfallen, sobald man einen Bonus storniert. "Non Sticky" Boni sind ?normalerweise" und in wirklich ALLEN Casinos, welche Non Sticky Boni anbieten wie folgt definiert: "Ein Non Sticky Bonus im Casino ?klebt" nicht an der Einzahlung und ist eine begehrte Aktion der Anbieter. Dadurch ist eine Abbuchung des Eigenkapitals jederzeit erlaubt." Bei diesem Punkt geht es mir lediglich darum, ob die Darstellung des Bonus als "Non Sticky" irreführend gegenüber dem Nutzer ist. Meiner Meinung nach wird hier suggeriert, dass man ALLE seine Gewinne jederzeit auszahlen kann, da der Bonus ja "Non Sticky" ist und dies der Standard in der Casinobranche ist, wenn ein Bonus als "Non Sticky" deklariert wird.
3. Erachten Sie die Bonus Terms des Casinos als fair? Eine relativ einfache Frage. Wie kann es fair sein, dass auf eine "Raw Balance" eine maximale Auszahlung von 2x vorgeschrieben wird, egal ob diese an einen Bonus "gebunden" ist oder nicht. Besonders, wenn die maximale Auszahlung des Bonus 10x betr?gt. Ich finde das Sie zumindest auf Ihrer Seite (Casinoguru) darstellen sollten, dass die Bonus Terms dieses Casinos extrem unfair sind und in keiner Relation zu Normen anderer Casinos stehen. Mir ist auch nicht bewusst wie diese Bonus Terms legal sein k?nnen, aber wie zu erwarten hat sich bis dato niemand aus der Curacao Beschwerdestelle gemeldet, um sich meinem Fall anzunehmen.
4. Man kann den Bonus nicht innerhalb seiner "Raw Balance" wagern. Soll hei?en, solange man nicht innerhalb der Bonus Balance, in diesem Fall 300 Dollar, angekommen ist. Kann man den erhaltenen Bonus nicht wagern. Was ist also der Sinn dieses Bonus? K?nnte mir das jemand erkl?ren? Ich soll also zuerst 324 Dollar meines eigenen Geldes verlieren und kann dann erst den Bonus wagern und dann erst 10x meiner Einzahlung auszahlen (falls ich gewinnen sollte) ? Das hei?t meine eigentliche Balance hat sobald ich den Bonus annehme, gar keinen Wert bis ich in den Bonus gelange, au?er das ich grandiose 2x meiner Einzahlung auszahlen kann ? Ich m?chte das nochmal betonen: Man wagert nicht solange man sich nicht in der Bonus Balance befindet ! Auch hier meine Frage: Ist das fair? Macht das Sinn? Was hat so eine Regel in irgendeinem Casino zu suchen?

(Edit : Habe den Punkt 4 noch neu hinzugefügt, da mir dies noch eingefallen ist.)

Noch einmal vielen Dank für Ihre bisherige Hilfe.

Ich bitte sie nur darum sich meine aufgeführten Punkte durchzulesen, zu beantworten und sich hier speziell auf Punkt 1 zu konzentrieren (hoffentlich nach internen Gespr?chen). Meiner Meinung nach sollte mir das Casino ?zumindest" eine Auszahlung von 10x meiner ursprünglichen Einzahlung erlauben, um eine Art von gutem Willen zu zeigen.

Gru?

P.S. : Ich w?re Ihnen sehr verbunden, wenn Sie meine Fragen chronologisch und unter den jeweiligen Punkten beantworten k?nnten. Ich hoffe das ich dadurch ihrem Gedankengang folgen kann.

Hi Thiemo,

Thank you for the clear explanation of your point of view. I'll try to respond to every point as well as possible and I'll ask you some additional questions.

1. In many casinos, as soon as you activate a bonus, you start playing with the bonus money (which consists of the deposit + bonus) and you are not allowed to play with the separate real money balance or the balance becomes a part of the bonus - that means, you can use it to wager the bonus. We can ask the casino representatives how this works in Sultanbet.
2. There are many definitions of sticky and non-sticky bonuses. Each casino can define its rules and they differ from one casino to another. You can’t really rely on one of them to work universally.
3. We find the casino’s T&Cs to be fair compared to other casinos. As stated above, in most cases, you wouldn’t even get 2x of your deposit.
4. This part could also be explained by the casino. If the wagering is applied to your deposit + bonus balance, theoretically it wouldn’t matter if you played with your real money or bonus money, you would simply have to fulfill the wagering requirement.

Dear Sultanbet Casino team,

Could you please explain how it works with this bonus, please focus on points 1 and 4. What happened with the real money balance of $24 that wasn't used for the bonus and how it works with the wagering?

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your response. 

We would like to shed some light on the matter regarding the user’s queries in question. 

Firstly, regarding the claim that they have won within their first 24 USD, after checking the user’s activity, we can confirm that that’s not the case and that they have in fact spent that amount and also went onto play outside of those funds with a game round on 5/23/2023 1:19:08 AM with the previous round on 5/23/2023 1:19:07 AM having spent those funds in its entirety. 

Additionally, we would like to point out like you stated that as per our bonus Terms and Conditions the bonus is tied to the entire deposit and therefore the maximum withdrawal amount is based on your deposited amount and not the amount on which the bonus was claimed, which is why the user has 648 USD available, instead of 600 USD.

Lastly, regarding the wagering, please note that the non-sticky bonus serves as a type of safety net in case the users are unlucky with their deposit, which is why the wagering of the bonus funds is initiated once the user has spent their deposited amount. Should a customer decide to cancel their bonus they would only need to have wagered their deposited amount at least once, and no further wagering requirements would apply for that deposit, however since they have played with the bonus active, guaranteeing them safety in case they lost their funds, the maximum withdrawal from said deposit would be limited to 2 times the amount of the deposit. 

We hope this brings more clarity to the situation. 

Kind regards, 

Sultanbet

Hello,

I would like to refer briefly to your first statement, in which you claim that I "didn't" win within the first $24.

As can be seen in the course that I have already uploaded and would like to upload again here, I start at 623 dollars (for whatever reason). And NEVER go below $599 at any point from then on.

623 - 599 = $24

So could you please explain to me how I am below the $24 bonus I didn't claim ?

Feel free to upload any screenshots of my history.

It's clear to see here that I've never lost more than $24. I have therefore always played with the money that was not favored by the bonus and should therefore not be bound by bonus terms.

Here again the "game round" to which you refer is clearly visible.

23:19:07 - $599

23:19:10 - $602

From this point on, I never go below $24 which shouldn't be affected by the bonus.

On this picture you can see again (but this time marked) that I had a starting balance of $623.

greeting

Saint90

Hallo,

ich m?chte mich hier kurz auf Ihre erste Aussage beziehen, in welcher Sie behaupten das ich "Nicht" innerhalb der ersten 24 Dollar gewonnen habe.

Wie im Verlauf den ich bereits hochgeladen habe, und hier auch gerne nochmal hochlade, zu sehen ist, starte ich bei 623 Dollar(Warum auch immer). Und komme ab keinem Zeitpunkt von da an NIEMALS unter den Betrag von 599 Dollar.

623 - 599 = 24 Dollar

K?nnten Sie mir also bitte erkl?ren inwiefern ich hier unter die, nicht von mir als Bonus in Anspruch genommenen, 24 Dollar komme ?

Ich kann gerne alle Screenshots meines Verlaufs hochladen.

Es ist hier deutlich zu erkennen das ich niemals mehr als 24 Dollar verloren habe. Ich habe daher immer mit dem Geld gespielt, welches nicht vom Bonus begünstigt war und daher auch nicht an Bonus Terms gebunden sein sollte.

Hier ist noch einmal deutlich die "Spielrunde" zu sehen, auf welche Sie sich beziehen.

23:19:07 - 599 Dollar

23:19:10 - 602 Dollar

Ab diesem Zeitpunkt komme ich niemals unter die 24 Dollar welche nicht vom Bonus beeinflusst sein sollte.

Auf diesem Bild ist erneut zu sehen (aber diesmal markiert) das ich eine Start Balance von 623 Dollar hatte.

Gru?

Saint90

Dear Saint90,

Thank you for your response. 

Further to your query, we would like to elaborate on the gaming history visible in your provided screenshots. 

Please note that you have deposited 324 USD and claimed a 100% reload bonus on 300 USD bringing your total balance to 624 USD. 

Be advised that the balance visible on the right-hand side in your gaming history is showing your remaining balance after the game round. As seen in your provided screenshots you have made your first stake of 1 USD which was a losing one, leaving you with 623 USD on the balance. 

Moving on to round 11007-0104-22852641938, which you have provided, we can see that the remaining balance is 600.10 USD. With the following round you have gone beyond your initial 24 USD in leaving your balance down to 599.10 USD with round 11007-0104-22852642304, from which you’ve won 2.9 USD. Should we consider that there was a mixture of the two balances and even account for 10% of those potential winnings being from the initial 24 USD, we can see that with the subsequent round 11007-0104-22852643100 you have bet 1 USD and lost, which would mean that the initial 24 USD was lost in its entirety. 

Furthermore, as we have previously stated, even if the winnings were from the initial 24 USD, which is not the case, the maximum withdrawable amount from said deposit would still be limited as you have gone on to play with the bonus active guaranteeing you safety in case you were unlucky with the deposit. 

Even if you claim a bonus of less than 300 EUR with your deposit amount, the result will not change. Because when you claim the bonus, all the terms & conditions of bonus will apply.

We hope this brings more clarity to the situation. 

Kind regards, 

Sultanbet

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Saint90,

I'm afraid I won't be able to help you with this one. I completely understand your confusion and frustration. However, there are not many casinos that let you withdraw your full winnings from the real money balance when you have an active bonus and the bonus conditions apply to the whole balance. Unfortunately, your complaint will be rejected. For future reference, I suggest contacting casino support before you start playing with a bonus to make sure the rules are clear. I wish I could be of more help.

Best regards,

Peter