Hi there,

I bought free spins at Mental (Nolimit) on Tsars.Com for € 200 and won € 14,000.

That same evening I gambled away another € 5,000. To prevent this from happening again, I asked a good friend to change my password in order not to lose more.

The payout was made four times a day.

Suddenly the support came and said it was a duplicate acc and I was banned.

I hope you can help me.

hallo,

ich habe mir freispiele gekauft bei Mental (Nolimit) auf Tsars.Com für 200€ Und habe 14.000€ gewonnen.

Noch am gleichen Abend habe ich wieder 5.000€ verspielt. Das dies nicht nochmal passiert habe ich einen guten Freund gebeten mein Passwort zu ?ndern um nicht noch mehr zu verlieren.

Die Auszahlung wurde t?glich vier geführt.

Pl?tzlich kam der Support und meinte es handelt sich um einen Duplizierten Acc und ich wurde gesperrt.

ich hoffe ihr k?nnt mir helfen.

Dear Timbrece,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

We will contact the casino and ask for supporting evidence, but, before we do so, could you please advise if, to the best of your knowledge, there’s a possibility that someone else from your family members or neighbors has opened an account from the same IP address or device as yours or using your email address? Could you please describe how your friend changed the password? Was it from your device, or theirs? What did you mean by: "The payout was made four times a day."?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hi there,

thank you for taking care of the problem.

My friend, whom I asked to manage my password, is also registered on the site, but has no activity on Tsars or the server for about 4 weeks. Otherwise I have neither neighbors nor family members who work on the site.

The password has been reset on my phone. I only logged into his cell phone a few times to make a payout.

The payment request was made in accordance with the rules, € 2000 daily, maximum daily limit.

After a week I got a letter from the support where I should justify myself how it can be that 2 people (both registered on the site) with a similar password can be found on one IP address. But I am very sure that his account has not been logged into. Only a cell phone was used that was previously used by another account.

After I told support that my data volume was used up and I had too bad internet access and therefore switched to another device, the terms and conditions were copied in 4 pages, thrown at my head, my account was blocked and the profits cut. I was told that you are a good customer and that you will get your stake that you paid in on the same day (652 €) back as a gesture of goodwill, which you are not obliged to do and the management's decision has been made. I was fobbed off and accused of duplicate gaming, cheating, violating the terms and conditions and unauthorized practice in the demo games.

6 weeks ago I won the Max Win of about 33,000 times on another Nolimit Game (Goblin) with the same provider Tsars.com. It was the same way of playing, I logged on several devices that day. At work on the PC, at home on the computer, on my mobile phone on the tablet, on the mobile phone of a friend and in various wifi and the payment was approved anyway. Why not now?

I am always ready with everything you need, there are pictures, videos and chats with support.

I am a fair player who has invested a lot of time and money into this site. And still intended to do so.

thank you very much Tim

Hallo,

danke, dass sie sich dem Problem annehmen.

Mein Freund dem ich gebeten habe mein Passwort zu verwalten ist ebenfalls auf der Seite registriert, hat aber ca. 4 Wochen keine Aktivit?t auf Tsars oder dem Server. Ansonsten besitze ich weder Nachbarn noch Familienmitglieder die auf der Seite t?tig sind.

Das Passwort wurde auf meinem Handy zurückgesetzt. Ich habe mich lediglich ein paar mal auf seinem Handy eingeloggt um eine Auszahlung vor zu nehmen.

Die Auszahlungsanforderung erfolgte Regelkonform t?glich 2000€, Maximales Tageslimit.

Nach einer Woche bekam ich ein Schreiben vom Support wo ich mich rechtfertigen sollte wie es sein kann, dass 2 Personen (beide Registriert auf der Seite) mit ?hnlichem Passwort auf einer IP Adresse zu finden sind. Ich bin mir aber sehr sicher, dass nicht in sein Account eingeloggt wurde. Es wurde lediglich ein Handy benutzt das vorher von einem anderen Account genutzt wurde.

Nachdem ich dem Support geschildert hatte, dass mein Datenvolumen verbraucht und ich zu schlechtes Internet hatte und deswegen auf ein anderes Ger?t ausgewichen bin, wurden mir die AGBs kopiert in 4 Seiten an den Kopf geworfen, mein Account gesperrt und die Gewinne geschnitten. Man teilte mir mit da sie ein guter Kunde sind bekommen sie ihren Einsatz den sie am gleichen Tag eingezahlt hatten (652€) aus Kulanz zurück, wozu sie nicht verpflichtet sind und die Entscheidung des Managements stehe fest. Ich wurde abgespeist und mir wurde Dupliziertes Spielen, Cheating, Verletzung der AGBs und unerlaubtes üben in den Demo spielen vorgeworfen.

Vor 6 Wochen gewann ich beim selben Anbieter Tsars.com auf einen anderen Nolimit Game (Goblin) ebenso den Max Win von ca. 33.000x den Einsatz. Es war die gleiche Spielweise, ich habe an dem Tag auf mehreren Ger?ten geloggt. Auf der Arbeit am PC, zuhause am Computer, an meinen Handy am Tablet, an dem Handy eines Freundes und in verschiedenen Wlans und trotzdem wurde die Auszahlung genehmigt. Wieso jetzt nicht?

Ich stehe jederzeit gerne bereit mit allem was sie brauchen, es gibt Bilder, Videos und Chat Verl?ufe mit dem Support.

Ich bin ein Fairer Spieler, der sehr viel Geld und Zeit in diese Seite gesteckt hat. Und es weiterhin vorhatte.

vielen Dank Tim

der Support hat sich explizit ge?u?ert was zum Bann geführt haben soll:

Hi Tim,

Thank you for getting back to us and thank you for your understanding.

To answer your questions in more straight forward manner:

1) Your account was blocked because it has matched with 2 other accounts in our system by password and device.

This type of behavior is not allowed, because at no point we can deduct who is the player and from who the money has originated (even if the money came from your card/bank account, it can easily be sent to you by your friend).

Because of the same password - at any point you and your friends can access all three accounts, without us knowing who is the player. Furthermore we have extensive bonus system, that can be exploited if three accounts are

connected by password.

This is also a tip for your future gambling on other websites. Don't use same devices and more importantly same passwords. This will easily be taken against you and won't be tolerated anywhere.

2) I tried to figure out why your previous withdrawals were approved:

- Maybe our system didn't detect your password match with other accounts (a technical glitch)

- Or you (your friends) changed password to the one that you have now. Thus our system found it later.

Hope this explanation helps a bit!

As I mentioned in my previous response, your last deposits will be refunded within 3-5 working days.

If any other questions arise, don't hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,

Tsars security Team

________

Ich kann best?tigen, dass die Passw?rter ?hnlich sind aber nicht identisch! Es wurden andere Zahlen benutzt. Au?erdem wurde das Passwort auf meinem Handy erst nach Gewinn der Summe ge?ndert!

Hoffe ich konnte etwas Licht ins dunkle bringen und Ihr k?nnt mir helfen.

Beste Grü?e Tim

Thank you very much, Timbrece, for your reply. One last thing please, could you confirm that your account has been successfully verified in the past and you received winnings from your previous game sessions?

Hi there,

I can confirm, it is verified and money has also been paid out.

___

Tim

Hallo,

kann ich best?tigen, ist verifiziert und es wurde ebenso Geld ausgezahlt.

___

tim

Thank you very much, Timbrece, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter ([email protected]) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hi Timbrece,

I have looked at your case and understand the situation. Firstly, I have to say, it is never a good idea to use someone else's device especially if they also have an account in the same casino. All it does is cause trouble. I will contact the casino and see if I can help. I would like to invite Tsars Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Good afternoon

This case is not simple, you need to understand that we check the accounts for matches automatically, at the time of the request for withdrawal.

At the time of closing the account, there were the following statistics:

Made deposits - 2156.00 EUR

Made payouts - 8000.00 EUR

It is unlikely that such a situation can accuse us of being unfair to the player. But at the time of the next payout was found the following coincidence with another account:

The same device

The same IP address

Same password

At such coincidences, we have no right to leave the accounts open. Because we see that one person (obviously) uses two accounts, which is clearly prohibited by the rules.

On the one hand, the client's position is clear, he described the situation quite clearly. On the other hand, we can't believe the words in these things, and when the coincidence is so clear, we have to act harshly.

If the client wanted to limit his game - you can always use the temporary blocking of the account, it is available in the personal account settings.

Unfortunately, both accounts will remain blocked. Further play is not possible. We can only wish not to make similar mistakes in the future.

Best Regards

Andrei

Hello everybody,

I understand that the account will be checked when paying out. I now also understand the provider's side.

And yet I find it a scandal if I restrict my account or have it temporarily blocked, I cannot make a payout.

Furthermore, no fraud can have taken place, as the password was only changed after the win. Since you can no longer log in or make a payout if you are self-excluded or restrict your account.

Yes, it was logged in on a second device that was previously logged in with another user. However, there is no activity whatsoever on this account, let alone a deposit or withdrawal.

The account was no longer used. I could understand the blocking immediately and take back all my accusations if both accounts had logged in at the same time or one after the other, which is not the case.

Plus, I've never complained about the fairness of the payout. But where is the fairness that if you win you don't get any money?

I am being accused of fraud and it is not.

Is there a way to compromise for both sides?

____

Tim

Hallo allerseits,

ich verstehe, dass bei Auszahlung das Konto geprüft wird. Ich verstehe nun auch die Seite des Anbieters.

Und dennoch finde ich es einen Skandal, wenn ich mein Konto einschr?nke bzw. vorübergehend sperren lasse, kann ich keine Auszahlung vornehmen.

Des Weiteren, kann auch kein Betrug statt gefunden haben, da das Passwort erst nach dem Gewinn ge?ndert wurde. Da eben bei Selbstausschluss bzw. Konto einschr?nken kein Einloggen oder eine Auszahlung mehr m?glich ist.

Ja es wurde auf einem 2ten Ger?t eingeloggt was davor mit einem anderen Benutzer angemeldet war. Allerdings hat man auf diesem Account keinerlei Aktivit?t, geschweige eine Ein oder Auszahlung.

Der Account wurde nicht mehr benutzt. Ich k?nnte die Sperrung sofort nachvollziehen und nehme alle meine Anschuldigungen zurück wenn beide Accounts gleichzeitig oder direkt nacheinander eingeloggt h?tten, was aber nicht der Fall ist.

Ausserdem hab ich mich nie beschwert über die Fairness der Auszahlung. Aber wo ist die Fairness, dass wenn man gewinnt kein Geld bekommt?

Mir wird Betrug vorgeworfen und das ist nicht der Fall.

Gibt es einen Weg zum Kompromiss für beide Seiten?

____

tim

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

Dear Andrei,

We believe that these kinds of cases should be judged individually. Let me ask you a question, are all three accounts verified?

Hello!

Unfortunately, there is nothing to consider.

We cannot open accounts because of a gross violation of the rules.

We have the fact that all the accounts were used by the same person. We cannot set any precedent in such cases.

All the accounts are verified, but we are well aware of cases of fraud where people provided absolutely any documents.

We take this kind of abuse very seriously.

As I wrote earlier - I advise the client to be more careful in the future. There is nothing we can do.

Regards

Andrei

Hi there,

I quote, "We have the fact that all accounts were used by the same person."

That is not correct, there are 3 people. 2 live in the same household.

Person 1: I.

Person 2: my friend.

Person 3: my friend's mother.

Now briefly explained again clearly. Person 2 & 3 live in a household but use different devices. Possibly in the same WLAN. However, both have the same password. For the reason that both have been using the same password for years. And as described above, both have been inactive for quite some time (months).

Person 1 is friends with person 2 and has used their cell phone. And logged into his own account.

There are 3 accounts of 3 people.

It was only accessed on my account and only by me! The exact login details are not known to anyone.

The letter from the Secure Team shows that if I hadn't changed my password, no error would have been reported to the system and the payout should have been made.

Unfortunately, that cannot be and I find that unacceptable.

In the future I will make sure that there are no more mistakes of this type. Unfortunately I can't turn back the past, the queue to stand for it is very long.

Yes, it was unwise to log into your cell phone and change my password. But it wasn't cheated. Everyone makes a mistake, so you shouldn't punish everyone right away.

____

Tim

Hallo,

ich zitiere: ,, Wir haben die Tatsache, dass alle Konten von derselben Person verwendet wurden."

Das ist nicht korrekt, es handelt sich um 3 Personen. 2 leben im gleichen Haushalt.

Person 1: Ich.

Person 2: mein Freund.

Person 3: die Mutter meines Freundes.

Nun kurz nochmal klar erkl?rt. Person 2 & 3 Leben in einem Haushalt benutzen aber verschiedene Ger?te. Eventuell im gleichen WLAN. Beide besitzen allerdings das gleiche Passwort. Aus dem Grund da beide seit Jahren das gleiche Passwort benutzen. Und wie oben beschrieben, beide Seid geraumer Zeit (Monate) Inaktiv.

Person 1 ist mit Person 2 befreundet und hat deren Handy benutzt. Und sich in seinen eigenen Account eingeloggt.

Es sind 3 Accounts von 3 Personen.

Es wurde nur auf meinem Account zugegriffen und nur von mir! Die exakten Zugangsdaten sind keiner Person bekannt.

Aus dem Schreiben vom Secure Team geht hervor, dass wenn ich mein Passwort nicht ge?ndert h?tte, w?re dem System kein Fehler gemeldet worden und die Auszahlung h?tte statt gegeben werden müssen.

Das kann leider nicht sein und das finde ich nicht akzeptabel.

Ich werde in Zukunft darauf achten, dass keine Fehler mehr in der Art vorkommen. Leider kann ich dir Vergangenheit nicht zurückdrehen, die Schlange zum anstehen dafür ist sehr lang.

Ja es war unklug, mich auf seinem Handy einzuloggen und mein Passwort zu ?ndern. Aber es wurde nicht geschummelt. Jeder macht mal einen Fehler deswegen sollte man nicht gleich jeden bestrafen.

____

tim

Hi Andrei,

We completely understand the logic behind your decision. However, since all three accounts were successfully verified and practically no rules were broken and the player didn't gain an unfair advantage, we are convinced that Tim should get paid his winnings. It's perfectly fine if you want to block all the accounts from future play, but the winnings should be paid.

Dear representatives of the casino guru.

The rules of the casino were violated, all accounts also used bonuses. The player was left in the profit, relative to his deposits and payouts.

For violation of the rules - all accounts are blocked. Unfortunately, we do not take players at their word for a long time. We have facts of violations, and these are gross violations, no withdrawals can be talked about.

Accounts are closed, winnings are confiscated. We will not set a precedent-based only on the word of the client. It does not matter at all whether the accounts are verified or not.

I can create an account in my mom's name and ask her to verify it, but I will play from two accounts myself.

In our opinion, this is what happened, one IP, one password.

The decision is final and not subject to appeal.

Follow the rules of the casino, everything is clearly spelled out there.

Best Regards

Andrei

Hello and happy new year,

I have no reference to the two people, just logged in to his cell phone and used the same password as my friend, which was reset on my device! Neither person is active on Tsars!

Regarding your statement: "I can create an account on my mother's behalf and ask her to verify it, but I will be playing from two accounts myself.

In our opinion, that's what happened, an IP, a password. "

However, this situation does not apply to me and is none of my business. But only the two and this is not the case here either. You limit yourself to guesswork and thereby form an opinion.

Furthermore, it is about the balance of 8500 € with which neither a bonus was used with or through! This statement is also completely wrong. Maybe I used a bonus 12 weeks ago, but it doesn't matter.

As I said, the rule was not knowingly broken and there is no fraud.

I'm sure there have been similar cases with precedent.

____

Tim

Hallo und frohes neues Jahr,

Ich hab mit den beiden Personen keinen Bezug, lediglich mich auf seinem Handy mal eingeloggt und das gleiche Passwort wie mein Freund genommen, dass auf meinem Ger?t zurückgesetzt wurde! Keine der beiden Personen sind auf Tsars aktiv!

Zu Ihrer Aussage: ,,Ich kann ein Konto im Namen meiner Mutter erstellen und sie bitten, es zu best?tigen, aber ich werde selbst von zwei Konten spielen.

Unserer Meinung nach ist das passiert, eine IP, ein Passwort."

Diese Situation trifft aber nicht auf mich zu und geht mich nichts an. Sondern nur die beiden und auch hier ist dies nicht der Fall. Ihr beschr?nkt euch auf Vermutungen und bildet dadurch eine Meinung.

Des Weiteren geht es um die Balance von 8500€ mit denen weder ein Bonus mit oder durch genutzt wurde! Auch diese Aussage ist vollkommen daneben. Vielleicht habe ich mal vor 12 Wochen einen Bonus benutzt, tut hier aber nichts zur Sache.

Wie gesagt es wurde nicht wissentlich gegen die Regel versto?en und es besteht kein Betrug.

Ich bin mir sicher es gab schon ?hnliche F?lle mit Pr?zedenzfall.

____

tim

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

Dear Andrei,

Let me ask you some questions. I can imagine that the player would gain an unfair advantage if all three of them took the welcome bonus and Tim made his winnings from this bonus, is this the case? Secondly, was there any gameplay in Tim's account after the password was changed?

Hello, everyone. 

Firstly: 

Peter - to respond to your last two questions: 

1) Tim didn't win his balance from Welcome bonuses. But from our point of view, this is irrelevant. 

2) We can't claim with certainty that the customer did or didn't play after the password change. We would need to request a detailed analysis from the tech department, which could take some time. Even if we grant that he didn't play after the password change - why this nuance should impact the most basic violation: having three accounts with the same password/IP/device is not allowed and won't be tolerated. 

Secondly:

I will try to make a complete summary of this matter and what implications are set upon us for future cases with similar Terms and Conditions violations. 

I want to start by pointing out statistics that Tim had with us before "his friend changed the password", as is claimed by Tim himself.

Deposits: 2156.00 EUR (15)

Withdrawals: 8000.00 EUR (4)

Customers' net gain from Tsars is 5844.00 EUR and this even doesn't include refunds for the last two deposits, which were made as a loyalty gesture.

One was for 451.00 EUR and the second for 201.00 EUR. 

Unfortunately, the 'fairness argument' won't apply quite so strongly if we are analyzing customers whole history on Tsars. 

Facts are as follow: 

We have three accounts in our system with the same password, IP, device - Elke, Patrick, and Tim. 

There is no rational explanation in our mind, that could explain these duplicate matches. From our standpoint there even shouldn't be any rationalization/discussion.  

Tim can try to justify it as colorfully as he wishes, but these types of decisions are not made on a "customers explanation" basis.  

If this sort of decision-making would be implemented in future cases, then every duplicate match case needs to be dismissed. 

Customers will come up with any fiction just to get the money back.

Furthermore - I want to zoom in and analyze Elke and Patrick more specifically. 

- They are mother and son who have the same password. 

This fact by itself is very suspicious and fraudulent. Why would mother and son have the same password? 

In our long experience with cases, where children play with their parents + have the same password, more often than not 

son or daughter takes parents card/ID and creates an account in their name. This of course is speculative analysis, but it could easily be true. And we are more than confident in claiming that most likely this is the case.  

And then we have Tim - who has also the same password. By any online gambling community standards - this type of behavior is not acceptable. 

I want to emphasize that if three customers have the same password; all of them have access to each other's accounts and at no point, we can clearly deduct who is playing from which account and when. 

Furthermore - we can't also deduct who is the owner of the money, even if the depositing method belongs to the corresponding account. Nowadays when online payments are easy and quick, money could be swapped back and forth between bank accounts without any problems. 

To conclude: 

Duplicate match by IP, Password and Device is a serious violation of our Terms and Conditions. We are not willing to make an exception, just because Tim (or a related person to Tim) found a decent enough rationalization. We can't just throw away hard facts and believe customers' words. For all we know, this could be one person that is using three accounts with our without the other person's approval. Our bonus/loyalty/cash-back system is very comprehensive and detailed, and it can be abused, exploited very easily if one person has access to three different accounts. 

We completely understand your case-by-case individual thinking model, but this, in our opinion, doesn't apply in such straightforward cases.

I hope that my explanation helps to understand why we made the decision we did. 

Best regards, 

Andrei

Hello Andrei,

First of all, I have to say I am very disappointed, especially since my net profit is always mentioned. But the fact that I have paid in over €25,000 at a wide variety of casino providers over the past 3 years and have not won anything needs to be said.

The amount was won because there is nothing to shake. It doesn't matter on which device I played and where not. Yes, I changed my password afterwards and used the same one as my friend. I'm sure I've also played a game or two, or tell me who is paying out a number such as €3,468.51.

A success if the terms and conditions are formulated more precisely. There is nothing to read that I am not allowed to use the same password as an acquaintance, only that I have to keep it secret and that is a fact. No one has to tell me exactly what to write down in my password.

Sometimes you win sometimes you lose, that's also the reason why I deposited over €8,000 in another casino in December until last week. And don't have a good balance. I was even written to by support, who credited me with €200 due to the high level of activity.

After consulting Patrick, we are of the same opinion as probably many others:

why is it reprehensible to have the same password as your mother or parents?

If you have a very strong and good bond, live in the same household and one of them may be ill or slightly forgetful, isn't it an advantage?

Personally, I have to say that even if my bond with my parents is not that strong, I still have a similar password.

We are adults who have been working shifts in an oil factory for years and are getting a handsome salary, why should we or he need to put money into Mom's credit card?

Bonus was not used here, as it is known that it is not recommended to play or buy games with feature buy with bonus money.

To the next point. You just meant "nowadays when online payments are quick and easy, money can easily be swapped back and forth between bank accounts"

Are you kidding me here? With such wishy-washy statements? So the same goes for the other thousands of players on Tsars too! Anyone can deposit and withdraw money. Only I need a TAN for every transaction, whether with a current account, via a separate app with a password or via the Mastercard via a TAN procedure via SMS.

So it is impossible for another person to make a deposit on my behalf!

You have your opinion, we have ours, in the end you have the upper hand. That's why I ended up here and shared my impressions with an intermediary like Casino Guru. Since I have no happy or nice game results here with you because of exactly these statements.

Since I won this amount, I've already told my friends, booked a holiday, got into debt and got into so many arguments with close people, because the situation really bothered me! Sleepless nights, high blood pressure and headaches. Of course, I'm now being accused of having everything made up or conjured up out of a hat, but you're welcome to tell my partner that I almost lost it because of it.

And that's exactly why I changed the password. I wanted to stop playing. Finding an end again with a win. Thanks to you I can't.

____

Tim

Hallo Andrei,

vorab muss ich sagen ich bin sehr entt?uscht, vor allem da immer mein Nettogewinn erw?hnt wird. Aber das ich seid 3 Jahren über 25.000€ einbezahlt habe auf unterschiedlichsten Casino Anbietern und nichts gewann muss auch dazu gesagt werden.

Der Betrag wurde gewonnen da gibts nichts zu rütteln. Da spielt es keine Rolle an welchem Ger?t ich gespielt habe und wo nicht. Ja ich hab danach mein Passwort ge?ndert und hab das gleiche benutzt wie mein Freund. Bestimmt hab ich auch noch das ein oder andere mal ein Spiel gespielt oder sagen sie mir wer eine Zahl wie zum Beispiel 3.468,51€ ausbezahlen l?sst.

Ein Erfolg wenn die AGB genauer formuliert wird. Es ist nichts zu lesen, dass ich nicht das gleiche Passwort wie ein Bekannter benutzen darf lediglich, dass ich es geheimhalten muss und das ist Fakt. Mir hat keiner vorzuschreiben was ich genau in meinem Passwort nieder zu schreiben habe.

Mal gewinnt man mal verliert man, dass ist auch der Grund wieso ich bis letzte Woche in einem anderen Casino im Dezember über 8.000€ einbezahlt habe. Und keine gute Balance besitze. Ich wurde sogar vom Support angeschrieben die mir aufgrund der hohen Aktivit?t 200€ gutschrieben.

Nach Rücksprache mit Patrick sind wir der gleichen Meinung wie bestimmt viele andere auch:

wieso ist es verwerflich, dass gleiche Passwort zu haben wie seine Mutter oder die Eltern?

Wenn man eine sehr starke und gute Bindung hat, im gleichen Haushalt wohnt und eine Person davon evtl. Krank oder leicht vergesslich ist es doch vorteilhaft oder nicht?

Ich zu meiner Person muss sagen auch wenn meine Bindung nicht so stark zu den Eltern ist, habe ich trotzdem ein ?hnliches Passwort.

Wir sind Erwachsene Personen die seid Jahren Schicht in einer ?lfabrik arbeiten und ein ansehnliches Gehalt bekommen, wieso sollten wir oder er es n?tig haben über Mamas Kreditkarte Geld einzuzahlen?

Bonus wurde hier nicht benutzt, da es ja bekannt ist, dass mit Bonusgeld abgeraten wird Spiele mit Feature Buy zu spielen bzw. zu kaufen.

Zum n?chsten Punkt. Sie meinten gerade ?heutzutage, wo online-Zahlungen einfach und schnell sind, kann Geld problemlos Bankkonten hin und her getauscht werden"

Will man mich hier ver?ppeln? Mit solchen Wischi Waschi Aussagen? Das gleiche gilt dann also auch für die anderen Tausenden Spielern auf Tsars auch! Jeder kann Geld ein und ausbezahlen. Nur ich ben?tige bei jeder Transaktion egal ob mit Girokonto eine Tan über eine separate App mit Passwort oder über die Mastercard über ein Tan Verfahren per SMS.

Also ist es unm?glich, dass eine andere Person eine Einzahlung in meinem Namen macht!

Ihr habt eure Meinung wir unsere, letztendlich sitzt ihr am l?ngeren Hebel. Deswegen bin ich hier gelandet und habe einen Vermittler meine Eindrücke geschildert wie Casino Guru. Da ich hier bei euch wegen genau dieser Aussagen kein Glückliches oder sch?nes Spielergebnisse habe.

Da ich diese Summe gewonnen habe, habe ich es schon meinen Bekannten erz?hlt, einen Urlaub gebucht, bin in Schulden gerutscht und habe derma?en Streit mit engen Menschen bekommen, da mich die Situation sehr belastet hat! Schlaflose N?chte, Bluthochdruck und Kopfschmerzen. Natürlich wird mir jetzt unterstellt ich lasse mir alles ausdenken oder aus dem Hut zaubern aber das k?nnen sie ja gerne meiner Lebensgef?hrtin sagen die ich fast verloren h?tte deswegen.

Und genau aus diesem Grund hab ich das Passwort ge?ndert. Ich wollte aufh?ren zu spielen. Nochmal mit ein m Gewinn ein Ende finden. Dank euch kann ich das nicht.

____

tim

Hello Andrei,

First of all, I have to say I am very disappointed, especially since my net profit is always mentioned. But the fact that I have paid in over €25,000 at a wide variety of casino providers over the past 3 years and have not won anything needs to be said.

The amount was won because there is nothing to shake. It doesn't matter which device I played on or which password I made afterwards. Yes, I changed my password afterwards and used the same one as my friend. I'm sure I've also played a game or two, or tell me who is paying out a number such as €3,468.51.

A success if the terms and conditions are formulated more precisely. There is nothing to read that I am not allowed to use the same password as an acquaintance, only that I have to keep it secret and that is a fact. No one has to tell me exactly what to write down in my password.

Sometimes you win sometimes you lose, that's also the reason why I deposited over €8,000 in another casino in December until last week. And don't have a good balance. I was even written to by support, who credited me with €200 due to the high level of activity.

After consulting Patrick, we are of the same opinion as probably many others:

why is it reprehensible to have the same password as your mother or parents?

If you have a very strong and good bond, live in the same household and one of them may be ill or slightly forgetful, isn't it an advantage?

Personally, I have to say that even if my bond with my parents is not that strong, I still have a similar password.

We are adults who have been working shifts in an oil factory for years and are earning a handsome salary, why should we or he need to put money into Mom's credit card?

Bonus was not used here, as it is known that it is not recommended to play or buy games with feature buy with bonus money.

To the next point. You just meant "nowadays when online payments are quick and easy, money can easily be swapped back and forth between bank accounts"

Are you kidding me here? With such wishy-washy statements? So the same goes for the other thousands of players on Tsars too! Anyone can deposit and withdraw money. Only I need a TAN for every transaction, whether with a current account, via a separate app with a password or via the Mastercard via a TAN procedure via SMS.

So it is impossible for another person to make a deposit on my behalf!

You have your opinion, we have ours, in the end you have the upper hand. That's why I ended up here and shared my impressions with an intermediary like Casino Guru. Since I have no happy or nice game results here with you because of exactly these statements.

Since I won this amount, I've already told my friends, booked a vacation, got into debt and got into so many arguments with close people, because the situation really bothered me! Sleepless nights, high blood pressure and headaches. Of course, I'm now being accused of having everything made up or conjured up out of a hat, but you're welcome to tell my partner that I almost lost it because of it.

And that's exactly why I changed the password. I wanted to stop playing. Finding an end again with a win. Thanks to you I can't.

____

Tim

Hallo Andrei,

vorab muss ich sagen ich bin sehr entt?uscht, vor allem da immer mein Nettogewinn erw?hnt wird. Aber das ich seid 3 Jahren über 25.000€ einbezahlt habe auf unterschiedlichsten Casino Anbietern und nichts gewann muss auch dazu gesagt werden.

Der Betrag wurde gewonnen da gibts nichts zu rütteln. Da spielt es keine Rolle an welchem Ger?t ich gespielt habe oder welches Passwort ich danach gemacht hab. Ja ich hab danach mein Passwort ge?ndert und hab das gleiche benutzt wie mein Freund. Bestimmt hab ich auch noch das ein oder andere mal ein Spiel gespielt oder sagen sie mir wer eine Zahl wie zum Beispiel 3.468,51€ ausbezahlen l?sst.

Ein Erfolg wenn die AGB genauer formuliert wird. Es ist nichts zu lesen, dass ich nicht das gleiche Passwort wie ein Bekannter benutzen darf lediglich, dass ich es geheimhalten muss und das ist Fakt. Mir hat keiner vorzuschreiben was ich genau in meinem Passwort nieder zu schreiben habe.

Mal gewinnt man mal verliert man, dass ist auch der Grund wieso ich bis letzte Woche in einem anderen Casino im Dezember über 8.000€ einbezahlt habe. Und keine gute Balance besitze. Ich wurde sogar vom Support angeschrieben die mir aufgrund der hohen Aktivit?t 200€ gutschrieben.

Nach Rücksprache mit Patrick sind wir der gleichen Meinung wie bestimmt viele andere auch:

wieso ist es verwerflich, dass gleiche Passwort zu haben wie seine Mutter oder die Eltern?

Wenn man eine sehr starke und gute Bindung hat, im gleichen Haushalt wohnt und eine Person davon evtl. Krank oder leicht vergesslich ist es doch vorteilhaft oder nicht?

Ich zu meiner Person muss sagen auch wenn meine Bindung nicht so stark zu den Eltern ist, habe ich trotzdem ein ?hnliches Passwort.

Wir sind Erwachsene Personen die seid Jahren Schicht in einer ?lfabrik arbeiten und ein ansehnliches Gehalt bekommen, wieso sollten wir oder er es n?tig haben über Mamas Kreditkarte Geld einzuzahlen?

Bonus wurde hier nicht benutzt, da es ja bekannt ist, dass mit Bonusgeld abgeraten wird Spiele mit Feature Buy zu spielen bzw. zu kaufen.

Zum n?chsten Punkt. Sie meinten gerade ?heutzutage, wo online-Zahlungen einfach und schnell sind, kann Geld problemlos Bankkonten hin und her getauscht werden"

Will man mich hier ver?ppeln? Mit solchen Wischi Waschi Aussagen? Das gleiche gilt dann also auch für die anderen Tausenden Spielern auf Tsars auch! Jeder kann Geld ein und ausbezahlen. Nur ich ben?tige bei jeder Transaktion egal ob mit Girokonto eine Tan über eine separate App mit Passwort oder über die Mastercard über ein Tan Verfahren per SMS.

Also ist es unm?glich, dass eine andere Person eine Einzahlung in meinem Namen macht!

Ihr habt eure Meinung wir unsere, letztendlich sitzt ihr am l?ngeren Hebel. Deswegen bin ich hier gelandet und habe einen Vermittler meine Eindrücke geschildert wie Casino Guru. Da ich hier bei euch wegen genau dieser Aussagen kein Glückliches oder sch?nes Spielergebnisse habe.

Da ich diese Summe gewonnen habe, habe ich es schon meinen Bekannten erz?hlt, einen Urlaub gebucht, bin in Schulden gerutscht und habe derma?en Streit mit engen Menschen bekommen, da mich die Situation sehr belastet hat! Schlaflose N?chte, Bluthochdruck und Kopfschmerzen. Natürlich wird mir jetzt unterstellt ich lasse mir alles ausdenken oder aus dem Hut zaubern aber das k?nnen sie ja gerne meiner Lebensgef?hrtin sagen die ich fast verloren h?tte deswegen.

Und genau aus diesem Grund hab ich das Passwort ge?ndert. Ich wollte aufh?ren zu spielen. Nochmal mit ein m Gewinn ein Ende finden. Dank euch kann ich das nicht.

____

tim

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Andrei,

I completely understand your point of view. However, I still don't see what unfair advantage the player gained. There was no bonus abuse since he didn't win from a welcome offer. If he made all the winnings before the change of password and there was no gaming activity after this, it would confirm his story as strange as it may sound. There is practically nothing that he would gain from the situation, there was only the possibility of losing his money, so why risk that?

Hello

Dear Peter,

Do you think the problem started when the customer changed his password? We have the fact that one person owns more than one account and these accounts have used bonuses at one time or another. 

We could have discovered this earlier or later-it doesn't make any difference. The "unfair advantage gain" argument in our opinion is also irrelevant. The case is simple: if a customer has access/owns three accounts - they all will be blocked and winnings cut. This is clearly described in great detail in our Terms and Conditions, and we won't change our general duplicate account handling process, just because now the customer is playing on emotions and found a way to rationalize the case.  

All such cases will be resolved in the same way, and there is nothing to discuss. The customer broke a lot of rules, and breaking such rules is an attempt to cheat the casino. 

You believe the words, we believe the facts, and we act accordingly. All we can advise is not to make such mistakes in the future.

You may not agree with the rules, but there's nothing we can do about it and we can't make individual exceptions. The case has been closed on our side.

Andrei

Dear Andrei,

After another discussion with our management, we came to the following conclusion: Based on the information and evidence we can't really prove if Timbrece's version of the story is true. If it was an honest mistake, it was definitely the worst idea ever to risk such an amount of winnings by giving access to the account to someone else, especially a person who had an account in the same casino as well as their mother. To be honest, the evidence (same IP, device, password, bonuses taken) would be a good enough reason to block the accounts in most if not all casinos across the industry. However, we in www.kpvfaw.com, try to look at the fairness of the situation and the fact if players gain an unfair advantage over the casino and this is not really the case. Secondly, we believe that the casino should do better in providing additional evidence to support its accusations, e.g. it is very simple to find out if there was a game activity after the password change. The complaint will be closed as unresolved. However, the classification of the case will not hurt the casino's reputation much.

Dear Timbrece,

I'm afraid we can't persuade the casino to pay you. I recommend turning to the Curacao Gaming Authority and submitting a complaint to them ([email protected]). However, given the circumstances, I'm not sure if they will be able to help you either. I wish I could be of more help.

Best regards,

Peter

We’ve reopened this complaint at the request of Tsars Casino. After reviewing the case once more and analyzing all the evidence provided by the casino, we have no other choice but to reject the complaint.